(Message jeffa:320)
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 00:23:00 PST
To: L5RINFO@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
From: Jeff Alexander <jwa0@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: [L5RINFO] rulings for 1-5 March 2000
Return-Path: owner-l5rinfo@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
Delivery-Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 03:01:32 -0500
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U)
X-Accept-Language: ja
MIME-Version: 1.0
Reply-To: Legend of the Five Rings Discussion List <L5RINFO@ORACLE
***.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender: Legend of the Five Rings Discussion List <L5RINFO@ORACLE.
***WIZARDS.COM>
>From: Joe Fulgham <puck@HOLYCOW.COM>
>Subject: Relavence & The Great Silence & Storms of War question [JEFF!]
>
> We're having some odd "relavence" discussions on #l5r right now, and
>thought I'd ask for Jeff's thoughts on 'em:
>
>Question 1: Does the caster of "The Great Silence" need to be at the battle,
>or do you just need to have *someone* there? This comes down to "Does TGS
>fit the 'relavence' requirement?"
>
>>From the Pearl rulebook:
>
>-----------------------------------
>While the battle at a Province is taking place, all Open and Battle actions
>must do at least one of the following:
>• come from a card or token at that battle;
>• move a card or token into the battle; or
>• target or affect one of the following: a card in the battle, a token in
>the battle, or the Province under attack.
>-----------------------------------
>
> For example, you cannot "Face of Ninube" in battle, as it doesn't do any
>of the above things.
>
> However, there are several cards that explicitely affect the entire battle
>(Storms of War comes to mind) that don't seem to do anything above either.
>But... TGS specifically mentions "segments", which would mean, if SoW is
>'relavent' because it specifically mentions battles, then so is TGS.
Storms of War says "this battle". "This battle" is one of
those phrases that means the caster has to be in the battle.
This indirectly forces the Rule of Relevance to always be
satisfied.
>Question 2: Does Storms of War make any card you'd play from your hand
>relavent, as you'd have to bow a card in order to play it?
No. It does not make the extra bowing a direct cost or
effect of the new action.
;;;;;
>From: Curt Fiedler <curt@HAWAII.EDU>
>Subject: [JEFF!] DPOS, Hoseki, and Spelss causing honor loss..
>
>A question came up regarding everone's favorite spell caster - Hoseki.
>
>Let's say your are a Ninja player (DPOS), and you are using Hoseki to cast
>"Summon Undead Champion". Spells cast by Hoseki are not spell effects, but
>Ninja actions.
>
>DPOS prevents honor loss from your Ninja Cards.
>
>One opinion is that the honor loss is not coming from a Ninja card, but a
>Ninja action, so it hits the Ninja Player.
>
>Another opinion is that the since the spell effect becomes a Ninja action,
>the spell sort of gets the Ninja trait. Hence no honor loss.
>
>Does the Ninja Player lose the 4 honor from this spell?
Yes. It's still from one of his own non-ninja cards. The DPOS
cares about the card's traits, not the action's. (Actions inherit the
traits of their cards, but only Action Cards work the other way,
inheriting the traits of their actions.)
;;;;;
>From: James Collier <smalltownpress@AZTEC-NET.COM>
>Subject: Re: OLOA question
>
>> > Can you use One Life, One Action against a card played as a focus?
>> >
>> > I mean, other than the card Focus.
>>
>> Read the durn card and you would have your answer. It's there. Really. In
>> black and white. You know that little box at the bottom of the card that
>> tells you when you can play it.
>
> Yes, I see. Very nice.
> Now, read the little boxes under Bend Like a Reed and Strike With No
>Thought - two cards which are ALWAYS played only for their focus values.
>Their ability simple states WHEN they can be played.
> Do they lose this ability? What about Strike of Flowing Water, which
>could be the first of several focus cards played. How does OLOA interact
>with this one?
If the card just says "when focussed in a duel, XXX happens",
no action has been resolved and there's nothing to react to. If
the card instead says "Reaction: Play this card as a focus in a
duel to...", OLOA is legal... IF you know a reaction was taken.
In the case of Strike of Flowing Water, you don't (unless it's
focussed face-up for some reason).
;;;;;
>From: Loic LE BEL <97lebel@PARIS.ENSMP.FR>
>Subject: [RULE] Ruling on Togashi Shinkesen [Jeff] ?
>
>I know that cards aren't trying to fool us, but I'm wondering if togashi
>shinseken can use his ability on a non-cavalry personnality....
>
>Any comments are welcome !
>
>Togashi Shinseken, personality
>0F 3C -H 4G 2PH
>Dragon Clan Shugenja. Shinseken will not join a Phoenix player.
>Open: Bow Shinseken. Remove the Cavalry trait from a card until the turn
>ends.
No.
;;;;;
>From: Edward Bolme <edwardb@FRPG.COM>
>Subject: Re: Infinite combo
>
>> Alas, you can't play Nightmares on your own bowed personality; you can't
>> play anything on your own bowed personality.
>
>IIRC, if the card specifies a bowed target, you can target your own.
I seem to recall that as well.
;;;;;
>From: Sean Harvey <sharvey@MAGMA.CA>
>Subject: Dodging Plague of Locusts
>
>It just hit me recently that there's a way to dodge Plague of Locusts. Pay
>for
>your free holdings.
>
>Between Seppun Kossori, One Koku, and Honor, Bah! (use when you bring out a
>personality at full cost, Honor, Bah! the honour gain and use it for gold
>instead)
>you could quite easily end up being able to pay for free holdings, thus
>making them
>immune to Plague of Locusts. While it does slow things down, it's not
>nearly as
>bad as say, losing every holding you've got.
>
>The key to this is the "entered play for 0 gold" phrase. It does *not* say
>holdings
>that have 0 cost. Very cool!
Check the latest FAQ or Imperial Herald #14 (I think...it's
not 13). It's the cost when it entered play that matters.
;;;;;
>From: Tom ReyesCairo <jincks@NETZERO.NET>
>Subject: Martyr Question
>
> I ran into an interesting situation today with a friend of mine today.
>I was playing a Scorp. Dishonor deck against a water monk and eventually the
>game came down to myself with one province and him at -16 honor. I had two
>personalities out against a large monk attack. I blocked it with what i
>had, but it still turned out that he had enough force to take the province.
>I then used the martyr that i had in my hand to cause him the last 5 honor
>loss to take him to -21. The question is, which would resolve first? The
>fact that he destroyed my province or the martyr from destroying my
>personalities and thus the win from dishonor, or would they resolve
>simultaneously?
Destruction of the losing army and Defender's Province are
simultaneous [AD rulebook, p. 51]. Martyr is played "after" the
Personality dies [card text]. You'd be knocked out first.
;;;;;
>From: Scott Hebert <scott_hebert@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Seppun Sensei is AWESOME! SPOILER!!!
>
>>As soon as the cards are out, however, Seppun Sensei will probably >need
>>rulings ASAP! "Your honor gains and losses can't be changed" is >very
>>ambiguous!
>
>I must agree. Seppun Sensei is coaster-level if you can't cancel your own
>honor losses. 'changed' is far too ambiguous. Honor will _absolutely_ die
>to dishonor if they play this, and they can't Favor their losses.
Cancelling a loss or gain is a change. So is increasing
it. So is decreasing it. So is shifting it to another player.
;;;;;
>From: John Chapman <johnachapman@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Re: [RULE] Ruling on Togashi Shinkesen [Jeff] ?
>
>>1) You cannot attempt to take an action that will have no effect. (i.e. you
>>can't have Shinseken attempt to remove the cavalry trait from a card that
>>doesn't have it in order to get the Ring of Air into play)
>Since when? Id heard rumours that this was set to become a rule in future
>but havent seen anything to suggest its current.....
It is not yet current. It's received a surprising amount of
well-articulated private criticism, mostly addressing whether the
problem it fixes is really a problem that needs fixing and
whether it can be worded in a way that will be interpreted the
same by everyone.
> And if this ruling is current how does it
>apply to say using merchant caravans to toss cards for no cost actions?
See?
>>3)It can remove the Cavalry trait from a card that has gained it from a
>>card
>>effect. If the card was a battle action played during the current battle,
>>Shinseken's ability can only be used if he is on the defending side (Open
>>action)
>Ummmm not necessarily. If this cav card is in the current battle AND you
>have a unit present (which allows you to play actions) I dont see any reason
>why TS couldnt use his ability from home
There isn't one. He could.
;;;;;
>From: martin arnold <martyarnie@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Calm Winds
>
>Thanks...to backtrack to Hiruma Dojo I've been puzzling over that one as
>well. It is a reaction which implies that some gold must be produced in the
>first place, so can you actually use it to solely pay for a personality.
>This is what I have been doing before, but I think that's wrong.
It can be used by itself. Think about it. If you argue
that you can't reduce the cost of a card "coming into play" until
after its cost is truly and fully paid, then no cost-reducing
effect would ever do any good.
;;;;;
>From: Evan Hensleigh <futuraprime@HOME.COM>
>Subject: Re: Rules Question
>
>> From: Eric Herman <EjHerman1@AOL.COM>
>> Reply-To: Legend of the Five Rings Discussion List
>> <L5RINFO@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
>> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 18:15:14 EST
>> To: L5RINFO@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>> Subject: [L5RINFO] Rules Question
>>
>> I have a question about the Ninja Open: Will of the Emperor:
>>
>> If the person chosen has no unbowed personalities do they still have to
>> declare an attack phase? Is it like Brash Hero where if they cannot
>attack
>> they do not have to? Or is it like Lions Attack the Crane where they must
>> declare the attack, but may not have to send anyone if no-one is
>availiable.
>
>--------
>Will of the Emperor, actions, C, Honor Bound
>Cost: 1, Focus: 1
>Ninja Reaction: Immediately before the beginning of a player's Action Phase,
>lose 2 Honor. That player must declare an attack this turn and assign at
>least one unit to attack, if able.
>--------
>
>He must attack, and send no units. The "if able" clause is why. If the
>player can't attack because of a card effect (e.g. Emperor's Peace, Rise
>from the Ashes, etc.), then the effect of Will of the Emperor ends there.
>If he can attack, he must. However, if he can't send a unit to attack
>(because, for example, all his personalities are bowed), then the attack
>still happens, but no attacking units are assigned.
Absolutely correct!
>> I am wondering about the Region Plains above fast troubles. If I
>> have a face up personality in that province and force you to attack
>> then even if no one attacks that province I can bring the
>> personality into play.
>--------
>Plain of Fast Troubles, regions, C, Scorpion Clan Coup Scroll 2
>Battle: If there is a face-up Personality in this Province, that Personality
>enters play (ignoring gold cost and honor requirements) and is moved into
>the battle as a defensive unit.
>--------
>
>Every battle must be resolved during an attack phase. You can take any
>battle actions that are applicable. You don't even need to defend the Plain
>to bring out the personality, since it brings a unit into the battle. It's
>just a neat freebie personality, so long as your opponent declares an attack
>on you.
95% correct. :) (The minor nit: an action has to bring one
of your OWN units into the battle to be legal if you have none
there to begin with.)
;;;;;
>From: Lee Masheter <toku666@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Rant (short)
>
>>Youre missing Oni No Chi arent you? Ive seen SG pull a Take The Initiative
>>,
>>OnC , a follower on their first turn , attack and kill a province and then
>>still bring out gold later in the turn.
>
>This sounds good, but does it work? Oni No Chi states that it is brought
>into play as a Limited ritual. Do you have a limited ritual when you have
>no Shugenja? I think that's stretching it. If this is possible, fine/cool,
>the Lesser SL Boxes need all the help they can get (SG less so than SoB) but
>it seems that you're setting at least a weird precedent if you say "a ritual
>can include no shugenja." Again, I think it would be cool if this works,
>gives SG their own little (evil) Toku (Hm, wonder why I like the sound of
>that) but again, I'm not in favor of weird interpretations of the way game
>mechanics work. Anyone want to give us official word on this? Just
>because?
Normally, you always have exactly one primary shugenja: the
one with the spell attached. With Oni no Chi, there is no spell,
and nothing else in its wording makes any of the shugenja more
"central" to its summoning than the others. Plus, it says
"any number of your shugenja", not "additional shugenja". A
no-shugenja ritual is legal here. It's a special case.
;;;;;
>From: Edward Averett <dark@INTERPATH.COM>
>Subject: Barracks... (Jeff, David)
>
>>
>
>Barracks - Fortification -
>You may attach followers to the barracks, ignoring honor requirements, for
>half
>of their gold cost, rounded down after modifications. The followers cannot
>detach. During battles at this province, the Barracks and its followers act
>as
>a defending unit, if the barracks has any followers attached. The unit has
>no
>personality and cannot leave the battle.
>
>***********************
>
>What happens if you attach a follower which you have to destroy to use, say
>Ninja Stalkers?
>
>I believe that you should be able to still use and discard them, but the
>line
>"the
>followers cannot detach" is likely to be used by wankers on both ends of the
>spectrum.
They can do that. The inability to detach doesn't make them
indestructible.
;;;;;
>From: martin arnold <martyarnie@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Re: [RULE] Ruling on Togashi Shinkesen [Jeff] ?
>
>What is the rule of relevance? I dont understand that reference.
It's my own personal name for one of the two rules that
actions have to meet to be legal during battle. To paraphrase
it, a Battle or Open action is only legal if it is relevant to
the battle taking place right this moment.
___________________________________
Jeff Alexander ( Legend of the Five Rings FAQ site (O
Phoenix Clan Scribe ) http://www.zdi.net/jwa/l5r )
(___________________________________(O
****************************************************************************
The L5R Home Page: http://www.wizards.com/L5R
To unsubscribe from this list send mail to listserv@oracle.wizards.com with
the line 'SIGNOFF L5RInfo' as the body of the message.
Contents (c)1999 Wizards of the Coast, Inc. All rights reserved.
