(Message jeffa:317)
Subj: [L5RINFO] rulings for 8-11 February 2000
From: Jeff Alexander <jwa0@EARTHLINK.NET>

  To: L5RINFO@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:09:15 PST
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>From:    Dark Locutus <locutus@CAPITAL.NET>
>Subject: barracks question
>
>Hi.  Something came up in a game of l5r I was playing.
>
>I had a provnce with a barracks attached and it had several naga followers
>attached to it. My opponent attacked me and I defended with my whole army.
>we did our actions as normal
>when I played an encircled terrain.  Encircled terrain as you all know says
>"attacker and defender each choose one unit. the rest go home without
>bowing - yadda yadda."  the barracks say it counts as a unit when followers
>are attached to it.  what happens if I choose a unit other than the barracks
>when the terrain is in play? does that unit stay along with the barracks
>when the terrain resolves?

     Yes.  The Barracks unit simply cannot move.

;;;;;

>From:    John Chapman <johnachapman@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Rules Question Jeff - Renouncing Honor
>
>Ok , Ive renounced the ability to win by honour. Later Kachiko Exp 2 turns
>up. Ive got the ability to win by honour again. If time is called while
>she's still in play then I should be able to count honour as a victory
>condition that I am able to obtain - correct?
>This being DESPITE i have previously renounced it (see rulings on Return of
>Fu leng wrt this).

     Sure.  You renounced it but then got it back.

;;;;;

>From:    Ash Thomason <akodoyobi@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Couple of Q's
>
>1. Ok. Rise from the Ashes is in effect can someone Dharma Tech or Avoid
>Fate?

     Yes.  These are not targetted, as only one Event is about to
resolve at any given moment.

>2. Can you Flee the Darkness a terrain that targets you at the end of the
>battle like Mountain of the Phoenix?

     Because of their unusual, delayed nature, Terrains have been
ruled to be reactable when they resolve much like if they were
just played.  Reactions such as A Test of Courage and Flee the
Darkness are, generally, playable.

     Flee the Darkness is NOT playable against Mountains of the
Phoenix, though, since FtD requires another player to target one
of your Personalities, and with MotP, you are the one doing the
targetting.

;;;;;

>From:    Philippe DUCHON <duchon@LABRI.U-BORDEAUX.FR>
>Subject: Re: Restoring The Kitsu - A deck for Comment
>
>But don't think you can make me step down that easily... have her come
>into play, Oath her, then Kolat Duplicate her. Now what happens when
>she comes back?

     The "your Lion Shugenja are Shadowlands" effect stays
repressed if Osugi is anywhere in your control, deck, discard, or
Provinces and has the Lion Clan trait -- including right after
Kolat Duplicating her.

;;;;;

>From:    Scott Schultz <scott@CEWEEKLY.COM>
>Subject: Exile's Road Question
>
>How does Exile's Road interact with regions like Refuge
>of the Three Sisters which, while not unique, limit the
>number in play?
>
>Refuge only allows one to be in play at any time. This
>normally prevents any other from entering play. "When
>Exile's Road enters play..." it becomes a copy of
>another region.
>
>Does this mean that Exile's Road changes to a Refuge,
>sees the other, and vaporizes? Or, by virtue of coming
>into play at all, does it copy the "only one" trait
>AFTER coming into play, making it ineffective and/or
>causing the Universe to implode?

     I think the same thing would happen as with Unique regions.
The restriction would not exist until it was already violated,
and you could then have multiples.

;;;;;

>From:    "Michael J. Watkins" <michael.watkins@LMCO.COM>
>Subject: Stars Scatter Q...
>
>Does anybody know what happens when a Jade Arrow (and by extension
>crystal arrow) ranged attack (which is strength 0) has been stars
>scattered??

     I'm going to say you just get a lot of strength 0 ranged
attacks and lose the special effect of the Arrow since the
original attack no longer exists.

;;;;;

>From:    "Ian R. Ryan" <iryan@UPS.EDU>
>Subject: Rise from the Ashes
>
>Tibbles--
>
>    Check the new Accumulated Rulings.  Updated Febuary 8th.
>Rise is considered to be political.  Which brings a couple of
>questions to mind.
>
>1) Can Doji Yosai exp copy the spell?

     He can produce its effects, part of which will discard him
from the game by the self-referential titles rule.

>2) Can someone who casts Rise be the "target" of Enough Talk?
>(Yeah, I know it doesn't really target.)  Basically, does the
>personality now count as performing a political action?

     Absolutely.

>3) If so, doesn't that mean that if I have a Master of Water
>with Wings of Fire attached, and he uses it, that it would
>count as both Water and Fire actions towards Master of Five?

     The traits of an action depend only on the card that the
action is printed on (plus rulebook definitions, of course,
which is why Ashes is Politial).  This would only be a Fire
action.

;;;;;

>From:    Dean McNabb - Tegel <DeanM@TEGEL.CO.NZ>
>Subject: Multiple effects from a single action [JEFF/DAVE]
>
>If an action that produces multiple effects has one of those effects
>cancelled, will all the other effects be cancelled as well? E.g.

     Generally, no.

>Asako Hosigeru: if one of his range attacks is cancelled, will all of them
>be cancelled?
>In this case I guess it depends on what action is used to cancel it. Flee
>The Darkness? Isawa's Helm? Isawa Tadaka (xp2).

     If you cancel one ranged attack, the rest stay.  If you
cancel the action, none of them happen.  All of these cancel
either the action or all its effects.

>Emergence of the Masters: what happens if one of the effects of the spell is
>cancelled? Are the rest as well?

     See above.

;;;;;

>From:    Rich Noel <dragnskya@JUNO.COM>
>Subject: Re: [l5rusefulinfo]       [L5RINFO] rulings for 5-6 February 2000
>
>>     Thanks, Brian.  That was my justification for ruling the
>>way I did.  Still, the original poster has a point and I'm now
>>leaning closer to his point of view.  I've always felt Double Chi
>>DOES double BLaR and SwN-T, and if it does, so should Toshimoko
>>Sensei.
>
>Exactly.  I take it we're waiting on Dave's opinion to decide whether
>both work or neither work?

     No, actually.  I've already marked it as a reversal.

>>     No.  Dave and I discussed this just this weekend, and we're
>>going to formally incorporate a rule that Doomtown already has
>>sometime soon.  That rule prohibits taking an action which is
>>guaranteed to have no effect.
>
>umm... There are actions in the game that are INTENDED to be guaranteed
>to have no effect, such as Philospher.

     And those would be obviously legal by, well, the Rule of
Obvious Legality.

>                                        There are also side-effect
>actions such as using "gain up to three 1F/1C tokens" to gain zero tokens

     But it's not guaranteed to be zero, is it?

>Basically, *please* be careful how you word this one.  I'd rather not
>have another "absoultely can never be played to effect" card like
>Recovering the True Tao.

     Here's the history.  It started as a way to get a
definitive, consistant answer to questions like "Can I at least
play Block Supply Lines during Winter Warfare, and have it do
nothing, to get a card out of my hand, or can't I play it at
all?"  Dave pointed out that a rule exists in Doomdown that does
exactly that.  I didn't see a big problem with it then (and I'm
still not convinced there's one).  In any event it is NOT going
to become a formal ruling before Strike at Midnight.

>>Subject: Blessings of Isawa
>>     The Rules Juna has convened and voted unanimously in favor
>>of the existing ruling.  The ability of the kiho is retained
>>only so long as the kiho remains attached to the Personality.
>
>So, by extension, since the ability to USE the ability is tied to having
>the Kiho attached, if anyone copies the ability, they can't use it,
>correct?

     Not quite... it's not using the ability that's tied to the
kiho but the ability itself.  While it exist it can be copied
just like any other.

;;;;;

>From:    Ash Thomason <akodoyobi@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Rise and Aihara
>
>Can Kakita Aihara react to Rise from the Ashes now that RftA is a political
>action? Would the no targeting kick in?

     Yes, no.

;;;;;

>From:    "Ian R. Ryan" <iryan@UPS.EDU>
>Subject: Face of Ninube
>
>So if I have the Ring of the Void in my hand, and a Face of
>Ninube, and no other cards, if I play the Face, can I then
>'react' with the Ring?

     No.  You cannot play the Ring of the Void in the middle of a
discard-and-redraw action.  It's a very old ruling.

;;;;;

>From:    Ronnie Hembree <ugohei@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Rise = Political?
>
>With the ruling on Rise from the Ashes being political, does this mean that
>Junzo's Army/Shadowlands Hoard/Sepulcher/Spawing Ground, can't use it?

     Correct.  They cannot.

;;;;;

>From:    Steve <sporritt@BIGPOND.COM>
>Subject: overconfidence vs kaimetu-ou's Ono
>
>  This question was raised the other day in a game we had, a Naga player had
>a
>Warlord out with a Kaimetsu-ou's Ono attached, and then bowed a naga
>shugenja, giving
>the warlord a +1 force bonus. The ono states that the personality gets an
>"extra" +1
>force bonus for the same duration. Someone else then tried to play
>overconfidence,
>none of us could say if it worked, because does the Ono add to the force
>bonus, or is
>it its own seperate thing.

     It's separate.  Overconfidence can't be played.

;;;;;

>From:    Yogo Junzo's Poet <dark@INTERPATH.COM>
>Subject: Re: Small and Large Farms, Locusts.... (Jeff,David)
>
>Several local folk want the answer to the following question:
>
>Does Plague of Locusts destroy Large Farms?

     Only ones that were brought into play with a gold cost of 0.
The "Small Farm" trait doesn't matter here.

;;;;;

>From:    Brian Duff <RUGBY4HIRE@AOL.COM>
>Subject: RULES QUESTION
>
>>From Jeff Alexander's website:
>>The rulebook defines the following actions as Political:
>>Lobbying for the Imperial Favor.
>>Giving up the Favor for one of its built-in actions (or, from the FAQ,
>taking an action >which requires giving up the Favor as part of its play
>cost. Remember that attaching >a card from your hand is a Limited action).
>>Any action which modifies an honor loss or gain caused by another effect.
>>Anything with the Political trait right on it (naturally).
>>
>>Also remember that if something isn't an action to begin with, it can't be
>>a Political action. (The rulebook implies that any effect that alters a
>>gain or loss is a Political Action, which is not true.)
>
>According to the new ruling, Rise From Ashes is a political action. How is
>this so? I thought spells were not actions. Can you One Life One Action Rise
>from Ashes? No, you can't, therefore it is not an action, hence not a
>political action.

     Spell Cards are not Action Cards, no, but the Limited action
of CASTING Rise from the Ashes meets the rulebook definition of
"Political".  And it's been Political since the day it was printed.
The ruling isn't changing anything.  It's only calling attention to
the fact.

;;;;;

>From:    Shawn Williams <Wpndelta@AOL.COM>
>Subject: A Rules Question  about celestial alignment Jeff?    Please respond
>
>>    Lets say I have the event Celestial Alignment in play, which says that
>>  Shugenjas don't need to bow to produce spell effects and use inate
>>  abilities for one turn.
>>
>>      Lets say that I preform a ritual spell, do any of the Shugenja bow?

     I'm pretty sure it was in an old FAQ that assisting shugenja
benefitted from all spellcasting-related effects, but A) I don't
recall the justification for it, and B) it doesn't jive with the fact
that they do not suffer spellcasting penalties (ex: a shugenja who
cannot bow to cast can still bow to assist).  I'm going to say the
secondary shugenja would still bow.

;;;;;

>From:    Stefan Lenfest <slenfest@CONCENTRIC.NET>
>Subject: Re: rulings for 5-6 February 2000
>
>Jeff Alexander wrote:
>
>> >4) The Wanker Rule covers the following, correct? "Kitsuki Kaagi's
>Journal
>> >says that actions which target Ninja may target cards in this unit,
>> >however, even if the target is not a ninja. Face of the Nameless is an
>> >action which targets Ninja, so it can steal someone with the Journal."
>>
>>      I don't see why you'd even need the rule.  The card itself
>> says it targets "any one human personality in play".  Nothing
>> about ninja at all.
>
>He's saying it targets the ninja you are bowing to steal the guy.  Since
>it techinically does target ninja cards (in some way); then, by a
>technical reading, the action can also target (albeit for a different
>reason) the guy with the journal.

     Nope.  Sorry.  Your friend is really trying to stretch things
here.  Only the specifically ninja-targetting parts of an action that
target ninja can target the Journal-bearer.

;;;;;

>From:    Scott Schultz <scott@CEWEEKLY.COM>
>Subject: Re: Rise = Political?
>
>>      My curiosity is whether or not "enough talk" can now be played in
>> response to the political action, and if my Moto Tsume kills the shugenja
>> casting the spell, is the spell canceled?  Boy, I hope so, time to put
>> poisoned weapons back in the deck.
>
>I don't see why it wouldn't. Enough Talk specifies :
>"The duel is resolved BEFORE the political action is resolved.
>The loser dies, and if your samurai wins, the effects of the
>political action are negated."

     Exactly right.

>Since the Rise is negated rather than cancelled, it would
>still count for Ring of Air but it wouldn't have any other
>effect.

     Careful.  While this is true, it's not because Enough Talk! says
"negate" instead of "cancel".  It's because it says "the effects of
the political action are negated" instead of "the political action is
negated".

;;;;;

>From:    Togashi Kelly <schizoid@MINDSPRING.COM>
>Subject: Osari Plains & Various Terrains (DAVE or JEFF)
>
>Just working on a Crab deck for SoM and a couple of strange Osari
>Plains/Terrain questions have arisen...
>
>Just for your reference, here's what Osari Plains says:
>"When the Defender plays a Terrain at this Province, all Terrain effects
>that normally occur at the end of the Battle Action Segment instead resolve
>immediately."
>
>1. Osari Plains and Suspended Terrain
>
>Suspended Terrain says:
>"/Battle: Terrain/ All units that survive this battle are bowed. This cannot
>be prevented. These units may not straighten in their controller's next
>Straighten Phase."
>
>Simple enough question: I'm the defender. I play Suspended Terrain at the
>Osari Plains. Does it immediately bow everything?

     No, but its effect gets locked in and will happen following
battle resolution even if the terrain is destroyed during battle.

>2. Osari Plains and Awakening Shakoki Dogu
>
>ASD says:
>"/Battle Terrain:/ All units at this battle [may] return to their fiefs,
>bowed. All remaining Personalities have -2 Chi until the end of the turn and
>are Dishonored."
>
>I see in the Accumulated Rulings that this can be canceled with A Test of
>Courage. Similarly, can the player who did NOT play it send his own bowed
>units home? (Is sending a unit home with ASD an action? It certainly is
>targeted, but if you didn't play the action, aren't you targeting your bowed
>people with an action that you didn't play?)

     Yes.  It's an action and you're picking the targets.  It doesn't
matter who played the action.  No one can send their own bowed
Personalities home.

;;;;;

>From:    Andrew Nguyen <a2nguyen@UCSD.EDU>
>Subject: "Enough Talk"
>
>Is "Enough Talk" considered targeted? Because in some cases,
>such as with Stand Together, there is more than one personality
>who can be dueled.

     Erk.

     It's been pointed out before how ugly it is to need to know
every card ever printed to know whether something is targetted.  This
is why.

     I think the easiest fix here -- and at this time this does not
necessarily apply to any cards besides Enough Talk! -- is to limit it
to cases where exactly one Personality is acting.  The REAL fix, of
course, is nothing less than reevaluating the entire definition of
targetting, which, needless to say, is not going to happen this close
to Strike at Midnight.

>Note: A similar situation occurs with Bayushi Aramoro and his
>ability being targeted because of the Plains of Otosan Uchi.

     Not true.  Aramoro targets "a dynasty card from any one Province
in play".  So what if a Province holds more than one?

>And currently as Hida Amoro and Dead Eyes are worded, the
>personality will die if he attacks a province without an opposing
>army, because his force is not greater than twice a null set.

     You're being a tad overly picky here.

;;;;;

>From:    The Monkey <pwells@UALBERTA.CA>
>Subject: A Question about Test of the Emerald Champion...
>
>Test of the Emerald Champion states that you choose a personality you
>control to be your champion, and then issue a challenge to each player in
>turn.  The challenge _may_ be accepted by any his personalities.
>
>'May' says to me that the player doesn't have to accept, but the card
>doesn't describe any results of refusing the challenge.  What's the deal?
>Is the duel refusable or not?

     All challenges are refusable, and have no penalty for refusal,
unless they say otherwise.  Test of the Emerald Champion doesn't say
otherwise on either count.  (Notice that you have to survive, not win,
every challenge to get the Province.  Fighting and winning actual
duels only gives you honor.)

>I haven't been able to find any rulings or errata about this, so I guess I
>have to assume that I'm the only one who's so picky about grammar... :-)

     You haven't found any because there aren't any.  It works exactly
how it's worded.

;;;;;

>From:    Bruce Mackay <scottie@UDEL.EDU>
>Subject: Questions
>
>    Does the terrain Street to Street prevent unattached followers from
>performing ranged attacks?  If they can perform ranged attacks,  can you
>combine them or are they treated as separate units for the purposes of
>combining ranged attacks?

     It does not prevent them from using actions, but since none of
them are in units anymore (they're just sort of "floating"), they
cannot combine ranged attacks -- not even with something that allows
combining with cards in "another unit".

>    Can you use Superior Tactics to move a unit from your fief into a
>battle?

     No.  The wording of the card only allows moving between
Provinces.

>    When Ikoma Tsanuri ignores all effects of terrain and regions is that
>just for the player who has Tsanuri,  or does it affect all players.  For
>instance,  say you have Tsanuri,  and you play Deadly ground.  Did you just
>waste Deadly Ground or are your opponents not allowed to play actions but
>the Tsanuri player is?

     The Exp2 version?  "While Tsanuri is unbowed in a battle, she
negates all effects of Regions and Terrains in the battle."  "All
effects" means all effects, not just for certain players.

>    If you play poisoned weapon on a personality who has chosen to strike,
>has not focused and has a chi of 3 or less.  Do they die instantly since chi
>is 0 and if so does the opponent win the duel?

     Yes and no.


                         ___________________________________
Jeff Alexander          ( Legend of the Five Rings FAQ site (O
Phoenix Clan Scribe      )    http://www.zdi.net/jwa/l5r     )
                        (___________________________________(O

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