(Message jeffa:299)
Subj: [L5RINFO] rulings for 5-6 December 1999
From: Jeff Alexander <jwa0@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: L5RINFO@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:38:35 PST
X-Accept-Language: ja
-- /blue/homes/cowell/Mail/mhl.format --
>From: Upeer <Upeer@TIR.COM>
>Subject: This rules question may hurt your head.
>
> Ok here is the situation...You have a personality in play. Then you
>target it with His Most Favored. First question, does the "lose 10 honor if
>this personality leaves play" cause count as a permanent change?
No. It's coming from the His Most Favored card, which "remains
in play until this Personality leaves play". HMF's association with
its Personality is not a change.
> Now I dishonor your personality (a
>permanent change) and the use Egg of P'an Ku to copy it. I know my egg is
>dishonored, and i am pretty sure that I lose 10 honor when (if) the egg
>leaves play.
You do not.
;;;;;
>From: Kansu Shadolin <bereklan@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: fist of osano-wo (jeff)
>
>someone emphatically told me that fist of osano-wo is banned in tournament
>play
>i thought that hadn't happened
>and it doesn't make much sense to me
>is he mistaken?
It's a spell, and it has not been reprinted in any Hidden Emperor
Storyline expansion. That makes it illegal in Jade and Extended Jade
tournaments. It's still legal in Open tournaments.
;;;;;
>From: Stefan Lenfest <slenfest@CONCENTRIC.NET>
>Subject: Re: Questions on targetting...
>
>Evan Hensleigh wrote:
>>
>> Focusing two cards with Shiryo no Kakita can cause two reactions, however,
>> these reactions have no effect until a strike is declared.
>
>Bzzt.
>Breaking blow goes off instantly. Alsom the rulebook describes the focus
>as instantly raising the chi of the personality meaning something like
>SoFW also goes off instantly. So I think I'm right in saying they go
>off at the same time. I'm a bit ashamed of breaking the game's timing
>system but it appears that you have two actions going off at once.
It's not simultaneous. One card is focussed, then the other one.
;;;;;
>From: jo and Brent <jobrent@MAGNA.COM.AU>
>Subject: Ikoma Ryozo question
>
> We've always played that Ryozo goes home whenever the Favour
>targets anyone in that battle (on either side) but someone has told me
>there has been a ruling that he is lonly sent home if the unit targeted is
>in his army. I can't seem to find this anywhere in the FAQ or AR. Does
>anyone know what the situation is with this?
There's no ruling like that. He works as written.
You are correct.
;;;;;
>From: Richard Alan Jones II <prik@MINDSPRING.COM>
>Subject: Re: brokeness, DoTB, TWT [wotc folks]
>
>>You can avoid as much as you want as many times as you want (to a maximum
>>of three).
>When did this change? I must be insane but I remember
>a ruling that you could only Avoid each event once.
There has never been such a ruling. An Event may be Avoided
every time it's about to resolve.
The ruling you may be thinking of is that you can't Avoid an
Event which *won't* resolve -- for instance, because it's already
resolved for another player -- just to recycle a dead card back
into its player's Dynasty deck.
;;;;;
>From: James Collier <smalltownpress@AZTEC-NET.COM>
>Subject: Re: Questions for our last play-session.....
>
> Yoritomo Chujutsu SPECIFICALLY looks for a Mantis - just like Doom of
>the Alliance does.
He does not. "Mantis Clan" and "Yoritomo's Alliance" are
completely equivalent and interchangable [AD rulebook p. 41].
Chujutsu does NOT use wording that overrides this, like Doom of
the Alliance ("only Personalities with the 'Mantis Clan' as a
printed trait") and Mantis House Guard ("a Mantis Clan
Personality (not to a Yoritomo's Alliance Personality)") do.
Any Mantis or YA Personality will allow Chujutsu to assign.
;;;;;
>From: Philippe DUCHON <duchon@LABRI.U-BORDEAUX.FR>
>Subject: rulings for 29-30 November 1999
>
>Jeff Alexander writes:
> > >
> > >Bayushi Goshiu (Exp2)
> > >
> > >His effect is permanent. It will continue even if Goshiu leaves play.
> > >[DW, email]
> > >He can do it every time he enters play. [card text]
> > >The loss comes from Goshiu, since that's the card the text is written
> > >on. [ZF, netnews]
> > >
> > >How does Goshiu interact with the Dark Path of Shadow stronghold? I'm
> > >not entirely sure if the honor losses should come from Goshiu, since
> > >even if he leaves play the honor losses continue.
> >
> > So? Oath of Fealty leaves play immediately, but its effects
> > last forever too.
> >
> > "The card causing the loss is, by default, the card that
> > the loss is printed on" is an easy-to-remember, easy-to-apply,
> > mistake-resistant ruling, and Goshiu's wording isn't odd enough
> > to clearly warrant going against it.
> >
> > >Also, can Soshi Taoshi's ability be used if a holding is targetted with
> > >Goshiu's ability? I believe you can, but I want to make sure.
> >
> > Yes.
>
>Jeff, I believe the two rulings above are in conflict. Since the honor
>loss comes from Goshiu, the holding isn't the source; and Soshi
>Taoshi's ability reads:
>
>| Open: Bow to bow any gold producing holding which causes an honor
>| loss when bowed for gold.
>
>I'd say the Holding isn't causing an honor loss when bowed for Gold -
>Goshiu does.
D'oh. You're absolutely right. Thanks for catching that.
;;;;;
>From: Stefan Lenfest <slenfest@CONCENTRIC.NET>
>Subject: Questions on targetting...
>
>The situation was that an enlightenment player had Rise From the Ashes
>out and tried to Dharma Tech his opponent's Doom of the Brotherhood. I
>ruled that he couldnt because it technically targets the Doom because of
>the possibility of having 2 events in the Plains of Ottosan Uchi.
>Does this really target? It says as soon as the event is revealed so I
>would say yes, even though the PoOU player is required to resolve each
>event one at a time they reveal together. Does Avoid Fate target in
>this case? The Imperial text is unclear and I'm not sure if the wording
>has changed.
The cards in the Plains of Otosan Uchi (or any other multi-
card Province) are still revealed one at a time, from left to right.
Avoid Fate is not targetted.
;;;;;
>From: Philippe DUCHON <duchon@LABRI.U-BORDEAUX.FR>
>Subject: Re: Threat [Jeff]
>
> > Ergo, Threat states that It CAN be used in battle, only if the
> > target has a person outside of the battle. Remeber one of the
> > Cardnal rules, if any card or stronghold contradicts these rules,
> > then that card or stronghold is right. The wording makes it an
> > exception to the rule.
>
>Thanks for restating what was the starting point of my original question.
>
>It does seem that Threat breaks the rule of relevance, implicitly.
>
As has been pointed out to me in email, it takes an
incredibly pedantic reading of the card to claim it doesn't
explicitly break the Rule of Relevance
>But does it break the rule of presence? Can I play it if I have no
>units in the battle?
No and no.
;;;;;
>From: Stefan Lenfest <slenfest@CONCENTRIC.NET>
>Subject: Re: Rules questions
>
>Say, did they ever overturn that ruling where asami has no effect on the
>person with the journal?
The ruling is that the Journal's Personality's controller
cannot select him as the Personality to bow, not that he can be
selected when other targets are available to make the bowing
"fizzle".
And no, it hasn't.
;;;;;
>From: Philippe DUCHON <duchon@LABRI.U-BORDEAUX.FR>
>Subject: Re: Questions on targetting...
>
>The problem is, what situations may or may not arise is an incredibly
>complex problem. And, it strongly depends on knowing what cards exist
>in the game
You're not the only person to notice this. You're not the
only person to strongly dislike it, either.
>Here's a good test: Traversable Terrain was changed _again_, but I
>don't know when (that is, it was changed after the Pearl change). Now
>it only takes effect if you have a unit present at resolution (which
>means it cannot be used with a Scout to trump the Dark Path of
>Shadow). I noticed this while looking at my fixed Honor Bound cards,
>but never saw it mentioned anywhere else. If a web database doesn't
>mention this, it's probably not up to date...
That's a change I hadn't heard of myself. Would you
mind sending me the complete new text privately, to
jwa0@earthlink.net? Better yet, can you identify which deck(s)
it came in?
;;;;;
>From: MitsuMan Monk <mitsuman_monk@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: False Tao Ruling [Jeff]
>
>What is the point of The False Tao then?
As others have pointed out: to deny him the benefits of
that Ring for a turn.
>If I make my opponents ring of air inactive during a turn with the False
>Tao...can he use finding the harmony to switch it from play?
Yes. It's still in play. (And, yes, this means the
previous ruling on Prayer Shrines, etc. needs to be revisited.)
;;;;;
>From: Hiruma Nekokaburi <lwolf-nekokaburi@POWERUP.COM.AU>
>Subject: Some rules questions
>
>Which has priority, Hiruma Sensei or Akodo's Leadership using it's "and
>not have its effects negated" clause?
The Sensei.
>Does the reaction "Cornered" prevent a unit being sent home by the
>Imperial Favour?
Sure. Using the Favor for that is a Battle action.
>Can Forward Patrol target a Scout follower to meet its requirement?
;;;;;
>From: Steve Muray <smuray@NAC.NET>
>Subject: Re: rulings for 29-30 November 1999
>
>But that's not the main question I had. The real question is, since the
>honor losses do come from Goshiu, if I slap a night medallion on him, do
>they become 4 point honor losses?
Only if you can get the Medallion on him as he's coming into
play.
;;;;;
>From: Daidoji Eric <GuardCdr@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: strategy for 2 December 1999 (3TA)
>
>Ambush: The unit with those followers is bowed. Get honor also.
>
>Counterattack: Kill the provinces with his new personalities and then come
>back on your turn to finish the job.
>
>Double province kill combos: He gets 1 you get 2. Do that on a Counterattack
>and that is basically game.
That will work, but it's...I don't know. Aesthetically
displeasing. Those are suggestions that only work if I'm playing
a military deck myself. Right now the best military Stronghold
is the Palace. So to use your advice, I need to either play TA
myself (but I'm trying to beat it, not join it!) or do what they
do with a Clan that can't do it as well (which is guaranteed to
fail in the long run).
>{Open format}: Plague
Works on only half the Followers CTB uses, means I can't use
weak Followers at all (and will thus lose every Sneak Attack/Stand
Against The Waves battle). I'm only going to see about a *dozen*
Dynasty cards anyway (4 first turn, 3-4 second, 1-3 third, 0-2
fourth). I don't think Events are the way to go against TA. Any
given one shows up one game out of four.
;;;;;
>From: Brent Keith <bak6@PO.CWRU.EDU>
>Subject: Re: "Discard from play..."
>
>>So what is your point? I hope it is not another attempt to have the game
>>designers change the rules to balance the game to your liking.
>
>A stated reason for the rule book change was the claim that too many cards
>already in existance rely on the rule working the way it is now worded to
>avoid being broken.
Already in existence OR in the production pipeline past the
deadline for text changes.
___________________________________
Jeff Alexander ( Legend of the Five Rings FAQ site (O
Phoenix Clan Scribe ) http://www.zdi.net/jwa/l5r )
(___________________________________(O
****************************************************************************
The L5R Home Page: http://www.wizards.com/L5R
To unsubscribe from this list send mail to listserv@oracle.wizards.com with
the line 'SIGNOFF L5RInfo' as the body of the message.
Contents (c)1999 Wizards of the Coast, Inc. All rights reserved.
