(Message jeffa:295)
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 19:02:48 PST
To: L5RINFO@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
From: Jeff Alexander <jwa0@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: [L5RINFO] rulings for 29-30 November 1999
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>From: James Collier <smalltownpress@AZTEC-NET.COM>
>Subject: A new Teacher
>
> Is it possible to start a game without a Sensei in play, and later
>on add one using a card effect like A New Teacher?
Yes.
;;;;;
>From: Lindberg Tomi <tolindbe@TRADE.KAUPPA.TURKUAMK.FI>
>Subject: a questions?
>
>1) Do human shugenjas in a Phoenix deck using Eternall Halls of Shiba gain
>Phoenix trait, or does the stronghold work like the new ratling sensei?
By errata: they swear fealty once, at the beginning of the game.
>2) Can a player using Sepulcher of Bone or the "Oni stronghold" bring
>Shadowlands personalities into play with -2 gold cost?
No, for two reasons. One: "Shadowlands" is not a clan
alignment. Two: Any Shadowlands deck players are exempt from
the "2g less or honor" rule.
>3) Do In Search of Future reduce to 0 all force bonuses occurred before
>it, or does it reduce all force bonuses that have happened or will happen
>in that battle?
Just bonuses currently in effect at the time it's played.
;;;;;
>From: MitsuMan Monk <mitsuman_monk@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: In Search of the future [rules] {jeff}
>
>a: does in search of the future negate both past and future bonus's to zero.
>or only those that have been played up to that point.
See above.
>b: does attached cards mean personalities in the battle and followers?
>example. Tactician plays a 4 focus to add four force...does that go away
>with in search?
Yes.
> or does the personality count as an attached card. (asking
>due to a ruling I heard earlier)
The bonus was not granted by a card attached TO the
Personality, so it goes away.
>c: what about force bonus's from the personalities themselves. like the new
>air oni or aramasu. they gain force bonus's from actions on their cards.
>do they lose those?
Yes.
>d: and last but not least.....what force bonus's are persistant (like
>spawning grounds) and cant be negated by in search of the future.
ISotF will even negate things like the Spawning Grounds'
and Oath of Fealty's force bonuses.
;;;;;
>From: Laura Tank <ltank@YAHOO.COM>
>Subject: Re: Doom of the Brotherhood
>
>--It seems counterintuitive but, pack one Amnesia to
>negate your own Kaede sensei right before you are
>going to win by honor...and always have avoid fate
>(just in case)
It won't work. Amnesia can only target another player's
Sensei.
Forgotten Lesson won't work either since it only lasts for
one turn and there's no way of playing it at the very beginning
of your turn.
;;;;;
>From: Rich & Noel <dragnskya@JUNO.COM>
>Subject: Re: [l5rusefulinfo] Re: [L5R] Silly Favor Question
>
>> Erk. L5R really, really hates ties, and for the sake of avoiding
>>one, you should apply the Breach in turn order starting with the
>>player who played it.
>
>Per previous rulings, such as that for Kitsu Osen and Stronghold of the
>Dragonfly, it has been held that when two occurrances are happening
>"simultaneously", it falls to the active player (ie the player whose turn
>it is) to determine the order in which they will be resolved, unless
>there is an indicator on the card that would indicate otherwise. In this
>case, the active player would presumably choose for his opponent to lose
>the honor first. Is there any reason for that not to apply in this case?
That works just as well. In fact, there's slightly more
precedent for it. You've Officially[TM] convinced me.
The truth of the matter is, these things have gone both ways
in the past. Look at the Rise of the Phoenix rulings. I also
don't want to pave the road for things like, "It's my turn, so I
say your Careful Planning wears off before my Evil Portents and
your Toku dies."
;;;;;
>From: Mark Wootton <Kakita@KAKITA.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
>Subject: Hiruma Sensei [Jeff, Zen]
>
>Thanks Dieter that is exactly the thing I was referring to, and sorry Jeff
>for not being clearer. Let me now clarify how I think that this ruling
>applies to all cards I can think of, and perhaps Jeff can give me marks out
>of ten. In all cases 'defender' includes defending allies.
>
>The attacker can play any card that ends the battle immediately (Crushing
>Attack) but it will have no effect. The defender can play the same cards
>providing the conditions exist and it will resolve normally (again at the
>moment Crushing Attack).
The battle-ending-effects part of the Sensei does not depend
on units being present. They never work for the primary Attacker
and always work normally for everyone else.
>Any effect which places a cost on *taking actions* is negated for the
>defender (at the moment only Storms of War). The cost *of* actions is not
>changed. At the moment there is no strict definition of the difference
>between when something is a cost of an action or a cost to take an action. I
>*assume* it relates to what is printed on the card generating the action, as
>opposed to costs external to those printed on the card generating the
>action. So, for example, if an event came out that said 'all actions cost
>two extra gold for the next two turns' Hiruma Sensei would trump this for
>the defender.
Correct.
>At the moment there is no card in the game that blanket 'prevents' actions
>full stop. For purposes of Hiruma Sensei any effect which restricts certain
>subsets of actions (no matter how great or small) is considered to 'prevent'
>those actions and is therefore trumped in battle for the defender. At the
>moment these are:
>Deadly Ground (prevents all actions except terrain destruction)
>Night Battle (as above with limitations)
>The Great Silence (prevents action cards)
>March of the Alliance (prevents all actions not from cards in play)
>Enemy of my Enemy (prevents any action from targeting an opposing Samurai)
>Winter Warfare (prevents the playing of terrains - the 'no going home' part
>still applies c.f. Ninja)
Correct.
;;;;;
>From: Richard Alan Jones II <prik@MINDSPRING.COM>
>Subject: Re: Rules Questions
>
>It affects cards in the battle. You're reading way
>too much into the rulebook. You can always take
>an open or battle action at a battle if you have someone
>there. Doesn't matter what those actions do.
Actually, it does. From the FAQ:
In the rulebook under the heading "Battle Action Segment" you'll find
the rules that govern how and what Open or Battle actions can be played.
They're a little murky though, so I'll try to summarize them.
There are two conditions every Open and Battle Action has to satisfy:
1) You must either have a unit currently in that battle, or else be
using an action which will give you a unit there or which says it
can be used without units.
2) The action must be relevant. It has to come from, target, or affect
something in the battle or on the Province (or the battle or the
Province itself), or else move something into the battle.
Remember, these two conditions only apply to Battle and Open actions.
Reactions can be used any time their special conditions are met.
In addition, some -- but not all -- actions require that the performer
be in the battle himself. If an action refers to an "opposing" card,
"this battle", or something like "any other unit in the battle" or
"another attacking Personality", the performer has to be present.
This rule applies to all actions, including Reactions.
;;;;;
>From: MitsuMan Monk <mitsuman_monk@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: one life, one destiny, and uniques
>
>Curiosity struck me as I read the errata on One life, One destiny.
>
>the rulings from dave are estranged.
>
>it says that lets say my opponent has 3 hitomi basics in play...I onelife,
>one destiny her and none of the others leave play. Then I can overlay exp1
>on one of the uniques cause its not bringing it into play. Then I can bring
>in the exp 2 on a different one cause that is not bringing it into play.
>Then of course repeat with version3...
>
>Seems to make sense....but there is one huge flaw with this ruling. The
>rulebook clearly states....
>
>Unique Cards
>>"If a card has the Unique trait, only one copy of that card can be >in
>>play anywhere in the game at any time." You cannot bring a >Unique card
>>into play if there is a Unique card with the same name >already in play. If
>>a Unique card was in play but has been >destroyed, another card with the
>>same name can be brought into play. >You can have only one copy of each
>>Unique card in your deck, unless >a card also has the Experienced trait.
>>(Experienced cards have >special requirements for play; see “Abilities and
>>Traits” for full >details.) You can have up to three copies of each
>>non-Unique version >of a Personality.
>
>The first sentance of that paragraph would lead me to believe that you would
>have to discard the other 2 hitomis after one life, one destiny was played.
The ruling on OLOD deliberately overrides this, though.
It was an effect which the card was supposed to have.
>Even with the fact that you can bring in multiple versions of the same
>hitomi due to the fact that its not "Playing the card" but you still cannot
>get over the First sentance which is ther to compensate for the possible
>event of multiple versions. also what this ruling says is tha i can overlay
>onto any of my basic people..any of their more exp versions so as to have
>multiple exp personalities in play at the same time.
But you're not bringing any more out. You're just changing
the ones who were already there.
;;;;;
>From: Kakita Musashi <kakita_musashi@YAHOO.COM>
>Subject: RULES Q - Utter Defeat used as Feign Death by Junzo?
>
>Recently I had the privilege of seeing Utter Defeat used by a Junzo player
>as a
>Feign Death.
>
>Here is what happened:
>
>He attacked me with single Moto Tsume.
>
>I used Stand or Run with Doji Reju to challenge him to a duel. (Reju got to
>be
>5C because I had Kakita's The Sword in play.)
>
>My opponent says "Strike!", which should kill Tsume.
>
>Instead he plays Utter Defeat on Tsume, keeping Tsume alive, and shrugs off
>the
>perpetual honor loss.
>
>Is this an acceptable way of using Utter Defeat?
Yes. It's legal and effective.
;;;;;
>From: Brian Farmer <AkodoMakoto@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Re: [l5rusefulinfo] Re: [L5R] Silly Favor Question
>
>Natch. The rule in geneaal is, when two reactions conflict, the Active
>player gets first chance to react, then taking turns.
Um...no.
The first thing you check is, do they really conflict? If
one says it's played "before" the trigger and the other is played
"after" (or "before" and "when", or "while" and "after", or...),
there is no conflict. The one with the earlier wording will
always go first.
If there is a conflict, and they're reactions to an ACTION,
the first option to react goes to the player to the left of
whoever played the triggering action. This is in the rulebook.
Only if there's a conflict and the trigger is not an action
does the first reaction go to the current player.
;;;;;
>From: Upeer <Upeer@TIR.COM>
>Subject: Re: (no subject)
>
>but remember The Wave Men looks for any clan, not just "Clan" per the rules.
>Sparrows are not cheaper under this event, neither are dragonfly's etc.
Not true. The list of Clans is completely defined in the
rulebook. "Sparrow Clan" is not among them, so it's not a Clan
in the CCG.
;;;;;
>From: Jonathan Ng <tiny1996@YAHOO.COM>
>Subject: Quick question
>
>Do Feign Death and Utter Defeat target?
Probably not, but I need to double-check.
>This question came up when someone asked me if you can Feign Death and/or=
> play
>Utter Defeat on someone who is under the effects of Test of Courage.
>Also, what is the timing for the kiho Mercy Shroud the Earth? A timing
>question came up when a player wanted to use it to negate a terrain
>played with the help of Akodo's Leadership.
MStE is played "after" the terrain is [card text]. "Leadership"
is used "when" the terrain is played. It will always go before the
kiho (but, apparently, always *after* the Akodo Lion Stronghold, since
that's also played "when", so the first reaction would go to the
player to the left of the terrain-player).
;;;;;
>From: Dustin Tucker <tearsong@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
>Subject: Sacred Temple of the Phoenix
>
>Does a sensei that reduces the gold production of a sh (e.g. Nio Sensei
>or Norikazu Sensei, but NOT Yoritomo Sensei) reduce the 5 and 7 gold
>that the Sacred Temple can produce? Thanks
No. Only the normal Gold Production on the Stronghold is
affected.
;;;;;
>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Iain=20King?= <iain_l_king@YAHOO.CO.UK>
>Subject: Costs and cancelling
>
> Just wondering about a couple of things:
>
> I just checked the Rulings for cancelling and costs,
>which states that a card does not have to be worded
>'Do X to Do Y' to have a cost. Can it be taken that
>anything 'bad' that a player has to do to his own
>cards is a cost of an action?
Usually. I don't want to say "yes" because there are too
many picayune exceptions. Like this one...
> Or, more specifically,
>If I Flee the Darkness an opponents Nishiko (worded
>along the lines of 'Target an opposing personaltiy
>with less than or equal Chi to Nishiko. Shuffle that
>personality and Nishiko back into their controllers
>decks'), does the Nishiko still get shuffled back, or
>does the Flee just delay him one action?
Nishiko isn't typical. Both reshufflings happen as part of
the same effect. (If you want to get really technical, her own
happens second.) It just delays her one action.
> Also about the pesky Ninja : Opponents cards cannot
>cause you an honor loss. I assumed this is pretty
>much a blanket term, and that the only way I could
>attempt to dishonor Ninja was to give them a Pekkle
>and kill it before they Oathed her. But does
>redirecting count as causing?
No. The source and cause remain unchanged.
>but someone said recently that The Wind Truth alters
>an existing honour loss. So if my Ninja opponent
>Breach of Etiquette's me (his card causing honor
>loss), and I redirect it, does it cause him to lose
>honor, or just stop me losing honor?
You can't redirect your loss because you don't HAVE a loss
to redirect.
If someone redirects his loss to you, it disappears if it's
from something you're immune to.
;;;;;
>From: Steve Muray <smuray@NAC.NET>
>Subject: Bayushi Goshiu XP2 Questions...
>
>I posted this on rec.games.trading-cards.misc, but it was apparently
>missed, so I'll post it again here. :)
Not missed. Just hard to answer quickly.
>I was taking a little wander through the accumulated rulings, and
>wandered upon the rulings for Bayushi Goshiu XP2...
>
>Bayushi Goshiu (Exp2)
>
>His effect is permanent. It will continue even if Goshiu leaves play.
>[DW, email]
>He can do it every time he enters play. [card text]
>The loss comes from Goshiu, since that's the card the text is written
>on. [ZF, netnews]
>
>How does Goshiu interact with the Dark Path of Shadow stronghold? I'm
>not entirely sure if the honor losses should come from Goshiu, since
>even if he leaves play the honor losses continue.
So? Oath of Fealty leaves play immediately, but its effects
last forever too.
"The card causing the loss is, by default, the card that
the loss is printed on" is an easy-to-remember, easy-to-apply,
mistake-resistant ruling, and Goshiu's wording isn't odd enough
to clearly warrant going against it.
>Also, can Soshi Taoshi's ability be used if a holding is targetted with
>Goshiu's ability? I believe you can, but I want to make sure.
Yes.
;;;;;
>From: jo and Brent <jobrent@MAGNA.COM.AU>
>Subject: More questions
>
>1). If "discarded from play" now means put the card back into your
>folder/can't be brought back into play by any means, what does this imply
>for Doom of the Brotherhood? Does it stop Enlightenment cold (assuming
>there are rings in play at the time?)
It implies that it gets a lot more powerful. Yes.
>2). Do Ashigaru have to be destroyed directly (e.g. ranged attack), rather
>than just destroying the Personality, to cause their honour loss? (I'm
>thinking of the Lesser Oni ruling).
According to the card, you lose honor if they're destroyed.
Period. Lesser Oni's text requires that they be destroyed in a
certain way.
___________________________________
Jeff Alexander ( Legend of the Five Rings FAQ site (O
Phoenix Clan Scribe ) http://www.zdi.net/jwa/l5r )
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