(Message jeffa:294)
Subj: Re: [L5RINFO] 27-28 November
From: Jeff Alexander <jwa0@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: L5RINFO@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 21:40:20 PST
X-Accept-Language: ja
-- /blue/homes/cowell/Mail/mhl.format --
>From: Josh Timmers <JoshnMolly@AOL.COM>
>Subject: [Zen] Dishonor change
>
>It has recently been brought to my attention that the Ambition's Debt
>rulebook has a changed victory condition in it.
>
>On page 30 of the AD rulebook, it says "A player loses and gets removed from
>the game with all of his or her cards if all of his or her Provinces get
>destroyed of if he or she begins a turn with under -19 honor."
>
>What? Begins a turn? -20 has always been an instant loss. I checked Pearl
>and Honor Bound just to be sure and they have it that way. Please oh please
>tell us that this is a screwup and not a rules change.
Okay. This is a screwup and not a rules change.
;;;;;
>From: Edward Averett <dark@INTERPATH.COM>
>Subject: Re: Rules for 27 November 1999
>
>Zen Faulkes wrote:
>
>>
>> > So to be consistent, my Crab Ratling should be able to get 2 less gold
>> > for the Crab part of the stronghold, and 2 less gold for the Ratling
>> > part of the stronghold.
>>
>> No. A personality is a member of your clan, or not.
>>
>> > If I pay 3 gold do I still get the honor?
>>
>
>Ok, I don't get it.
>
>If I'm playing with a Dragon Clan Toturi's Army person in
>either Dragon or Toturi strongholds and I "Alliance" with the other one,
>then
>that person comes in for a total of 4 less if I want it, or 2 less with
>honor,
>or
>full if I'm wierd. Long time rulings on this....
Correct, but that's entirely due to what "Alliance" does --
reduce the gold cost of Personalities with Trait "X" -- and not
at all a result of buying your Clan's Personalities for 2g less.
A Personality is either a member of your Clan, or he is not.
You cannot pay 2g less twice.
;;;;;
>From: Darrian A Dalangini <d_dalangini@EARTHLINK.NET>
>Subject: Re: Clan Power Rankings?
>
>O.K. Let me be the first to disagree. I believe your top 3 are correct, but
>in the wrong order.
>
>1) Toturi's Army: Still the best! Strongest military (honorable or corrupt),
>best honor racing(free imperial ambassadors and start with the favor). Most
>importantly, hardest to metagame against!!
Indeed. There are three TA decks friends of mine have that
I regularly face and lose to. It's gotten to the point where I
want to build a dedicated anti-TA deck regardless of its chances
versus other archetypes. They're so different I've decided I
probably can't. One is a typical CTB, another is a weenie horde,
the third is weenie-centric but otherwise fairly well-rounded.
Aside from War Weary (duh), Low Morale, and Plague of Locusts, I
can't think of any card or archetype that would hurt all three.
;;;;;
>From: Joe Fulgham <puck@HOLYCOW.COM>
>Subject: Re: Rules for 16 November, etc.
>
>> >Just a thought. I agree that it doesnt let hitomi Reju win through a draw
>> >but I
>> >believe he can use his ability todrawan extrta card, as this adds to his
>> >(chi or
>> >focus i dont remember). Anyway I believe that if Void strike and Togashi
>> >yoshi
>> >work (and I hope they do) Hitomi Raju's ability also works.
>>
>> Sorry. None of these work.
>
> Really?
>
>Judgement of Toshiken (U)
>0G 2Fo
>Reaction: Immediately after cards are revealed in a duel, negate
>all card effects that would affect the duel's outcome.
>Determine the winner and loser solely by Chi plus Focus Values.
>If either participant has not focused, each participant may play
>an extra Focus card (face down if both choose to play extra
>focus cards).
>
> I don't see Togashi Yoshi (non-exp)/Void Strike as being any different
>from, say, Biting Steel except in timing of when you use them. Does the
>above ruling mean that a Biting Steel bonus wouldn't help in a JoT duel?
>How about the Clan Sword that one of the duellists had attached?
Good question. I'll see if Dave wants to clarify it any
differently.
The intent of this card is pretty clear: once the duel
starts, it's based ONLY on stat + focuses. Straight up,
completely above the table, no funny stuff. Since "affect the
duel's outcome" is so vague, there's going to be an unavoidable
level of arbitrariness in whatever ruling comes down.
;;;;;
>From: Chris Hayes <Spanner@LARRRRRD.DEMON.CO.UK>
>Subject: Re: Rules for 16 November, etc.
>
>I'd certainly agree that they can stack abilities. However, perhaps the
>question should be: Do all the Nio Sensei's 'kick in' simultaneously, or
>are they revealed/affect (once chosen) one at a time?
>
>eg a 3GP plays a 3GP plays a 4GP. Both 3GP have Nio Sensei.
>
>Depending on how you look at it, either the 4GP goes to 3GP (affected by
>one Nio Sensei, then the other one misses him), or it goes to 2GP (both
>affect him simultaneously).
It only drops to 3.
;;;;;
>From: Zen Faulkes <zfaulkes@PLANET.NET.AU>
>Subject: Rules for 28 November 1999
>
>From: Jeff Alexander <jwa0@EARTHLINK.NET>
>Subject: Re: Rules for 16 November, etc.
>
>>> From: Zen Faulkes <zfaulkes@PLANET.NET.AU>
>>>
>>>> From: Dustin Tucker <tearsong@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
>>>>
>>>> Does the Heart of the Shinomen Forest count as a forest[?]
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> Surely you meant "yes"?
>
> No, I really meant "No." According to the accumulated rulings, the
>Foo rule doesn't apply to strongholds.
Ohhhh, THAT "Heart of the Shinomen Forest". You're right,
it's not. (Big blunder on my part. I was thinking of a region.)
>> From: Zen Faulkes <zfaulkes@PLANET.NET.AU>
>>
>>>> Are the effect of multiple Nio's in play cumulative?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> As much as it is really, really unbalancing to suddenly find
>> yourself facing multiple Junzo players packing this, the text on Nio
>> Sensei makes it clearly cumulative, Zen.
>
> Grrr. While this ruling may be more accurate, I think the first
>ruling was the better one. Starting with no gold isn't a game, it's a
>bloodbath. Especially in an environment containing Bandit Attack and
>Plague of Locusts. :(
My point: making it non-cumulative is an errata-level
change, and thus not one which should be made quickly.
;;;;;
>From: Philippe DUCHON <duchon@LABRI.U-BORDEAUX.FR>
>Subject: Re: Rules for 16 November, etc.
>
>Welcome back, Jeff...
Thanks.
> > >Subject: Re: [L5RINFO] Judgment of Toshiken
> > >From: Nikolas Koumoundouros <bm-ykojjl@OTENET.GR>
> > >
> > >Just a thought. I agree that it doesnt let hitomi Reju win through
> > >a draw but I believe he can use his ability todrawan extrta card,
> > >as this adds to his (chi or focus i dont remember). Anyway I
> > >believe that if Void strike and Togashi yoshi work (and I hope
> > >they do) Hitomi Raju's ability also works.
> >
> > Sorry. None of these work.
>
>Poisoned Weapon?
According to the present ruling, no.
> > >Subject: [L5RINFO] Hiruma Sensei {ZEN, DAVE JEFF}
> > >From: Philippe DUCHON <duchon@LABRI.U-BORDEAUX.FR>
> > >
> > >So, if a Hiruma Sensei is in play (it affects _all_ players equally):
> > >
> > >* the attacker can play Deadly Ground, Night Battle, or The Great
> > > Silence in a battle in which the defender has no units, and they
> > > will take full effect.
> >
> > If [a reaction] is played after people have died (Feign Death and Kakita
> > Shijin are), you don't have units there anymore (barring a reaction
> > that actually spares a Personality's life, such as Utter Defeat or the
> > Ancestral Armor of the Phoenix) and the Sensei doesn't help you.
>
>OK...
>
>What about saving the Province with the Palace of the Emerald
>Champion? [the question being, are Province destruction and Army
>desctruction simultaneous? I assume yes]
Yes they are, according to p. 51 of the Ambition's Debt
rulebook. The Palace can still be used.
;;;;;
>From: Hitomi Ryushinzo <hitomi_ryushinzo@YAHOO.COM>
>Subject: Re: The other infinate loop
>
>Anyone here of the holding "Philosopher"? No, it's
>not an infinite loop. It is a "do nothing as an open
>action by bowing me" holding.
The Philosopher doesn't bow. It says it's usable only once
per phase or segment.
> Are these combos in
>anyway responsible for the "Philosopher"?
No. The Philosopher was *supposed* to enable you,
effectively, to take an action after everyone consecutively
passes and the game normally moves on to the next phase.
To make a long story short, it doesn't.
;;;;;
>From: Brian Kallenbach <briank@DECIPHER.COM>
>Subject: Question About Kage Sensei (And Not About Joining Clans)
>
>Kage Sensei
>Each of you Kolat Personalities has these abilities: Limited: Bow this
>Personality. Place a Sleeper token on any Personality in play. Reaction:
>When a Personality with a Sleeper token is taking an action, bow this
>Personality and destroy a Sleeper token on the Personality taking the
>action. Cancel the action.
>
>What exactly constitutes a personality taking an action? I know, obviously,
>things like actions on cards, and lobbying for the favor, but what about
>some action cards? Strength of Purity? Iaijutsu Duel? Attaching an
>Item/Follower/Spell? Are any/all of these an action taken by the
>personality?
"Performed", yes. The general guideline is that any action
that targets a Personality is performed by him unless it's one
that does mostly detrimental things, like Kolat Assassin and
Uncertainty.
;;;;;
>From: Dieter Pearcey <sleyc@FULL-MOON.COM>
>Subject: Re: [l5rusefulinfo] Re: [L5RINFO] Rules for 25-26 November
>
>> Deadly Ground and Enemy Of My Enemy are both trumped by
>>Hiruma Sensei, since they change whether it's legal to take
>>certain actions.
>>
>> Winter Warfare is different. It changes what actions can
>>*do*. It addresses their effects, not their playability. Hiruma
>>Sensei offers no protection for the defenders against having
>>their actions cancelled or otherwise altered.
>
>I think it's possible that Mark was referring to the 'terrains' clause of
>Winter Warfare, which would be protected against by Hiruma Sensei, thus
>allowing the defender to play whatever terrains his or her heart desires.
You're right. It will override the terrain restriction
where applicable.
;;;;;
>From: Jon Paulson <Takezo1385@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Rules Question [Jeff]
>
>Ring of air, states that in order to be played 3 spell effects must be
>generated. Now is that in a given turn or 3 separate effects each time it is
>played.
The current ruling: three each time it is played.
>My example is as follows: I have ring of air in play, Create two spell
>effects then for the third play finding the harmony switching my ring of air
>with water. Now can I immediately play ring of air after switching the
>rings?
>(being three spells effects)
Yes.
>Then I follow up by playing a second finding switching my ring of air again
>this time with fire.... Now my question is since I have already played a
>total of 4 spell effects can I play the ring of air again? or do I still
>have
>to generate an additional 2 effects?
You need two more.
>Sensei Question
>
>The sensei is considered a modification of the stronghold while in play, how
>are sensei affected by Iron citadel? Is the sensei ability lost? Or does it
>continue to affect the new stronghold? (ie; uji sen. lowering prov strength
>to 14)
The numbers set by the Iron Citadel become the new current
value (just like when an Oath of Fealty'ed Ninja Shapeshifter
copies a 6F Personality's Force, he gets 6F, not 7). The
Sensei's abilities/traits are also completely lost.
;;;;;
>From: Laura Tank <ltank@YAHOO.COM>
>Subject: Re: Sportsmanship
>
>--I could be completely wrong here, but I was under
>the impression that you could not generate gold for
>things that have no cost. Having no cost is very
>different then 0 gold cost (like wakazashi, small farm
>or Merchant Caravan). For sure you have to pay for
>something, you can't just bow gold for no reason. ??
>Hmmm.
You're absolutely right. But take a look at a Charge, or a
Superior Tactics, or a Small Farm. They have a gold cost of "0"
too, just like the Wakizashi.
;;;;;
>From: Kakita Musashi <kakita_musashi@YAHOO.COM>
>Subject: Rules Question about Kakita Torikago [Jeff]
>
>I have a question abotu Kakita Torikago.
>
>Here is his text.
>
>Kakita Torikago
>F C HR GC PH
>0 1 5 6 2
>Crane Clan Courtier. May remain bowed.
>Political Limited: Bow while you have the Imperial Favor. Select a bowed
>Personality. The target Personality may not straighten until after one of
>the
>following occurs: the courtier straightens or is destroyed, or you lose the
>Imperial Favor.
>
>Now, my question is thus:
>
>During my turn, my opponent has a bowed Toku with umpteen million followers.
>I have the Favor, and I bow Torikago to use his ability, targetting Toku.
>
>Now, this is where it gets curious:
>
>During the same turn, after using Torikago, I discard the favor, draw a
>card,
>and lobby for the favor. (Presume I have enough honor to get it without a
>problem.)
>
>Will my opponent be able to straighten Toku?
Yes. You lost the Favor after using Torikago. Moral: do
your "Favor Trade" first.
;;;;;
>From: "Michael J. Watkins" <michael.watkins@LMCO.COM>
>Subject: Bayushi Aramasu exp Q
>
>Concerning Bayushi Aramasu exp.....
>Does 'as a focus card' mean "a card used for its focus value"?
No.
>Obviously, 'as a focus card' means dueling but does this cover effects
>which use the cards focus values:
>like Merchant Caravan, Tactician, Daidoji Karasu, etc...
No.
;;;;;
>From: Ronnie Hembree <ugohei@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Sportsmanship
>
> As it was said earlier you can generate gold for zero cost cards. What
>that means is any card that has a little gold icon on it, that includes all
>action cards. I personally think the rule stinks but I can abuse it like
>anybody else. I hope for that little obscure rule to be printed in the next
>rule book.
It's not a special rule. It's just that Americans have this
hang-up about math and go all twitchy when zero is involved.
Since L5R has no "change" for purchases, it almost MUST be legal
to overpay for things.
;;;;;
>From: jo and Brent <jobrent@MAGNA.COM.AU>
>Subject: Rules Questions
>
>Hi people,
>
>2 questions:
>
>1). Evil Portents.......can it be used in the Battle Action Phase? I'm
>thinking it can't because it doesn't satisfy any of the battle relevance
>requirements (it never chooses targets and so can't be said to target cards
>in the current battle).
The Rule of Relevance is satisfied if action A) targets,
B) affects, OR C) comes from, a card or token in the current battle.
Evil Portents will affect something in the battle 99.999% of the
time, and will thus be legal as long as you also satisfy the Rule
of Presence (you have a unit in the battle).
>2). Kage/Arok'tuk'tuk Sensei.........I haven't had the stamina to keep up
>with the aligned vs. member vs. Clan trait business. I understand that your
>ratlings/kolats aren't recognised by your Ancestral Sword but would some
>kind soul please enlighten me as to what they do count for as the current
>rulings stand?
Anything that looks for members of "your Clan" in general,
no matter what Clan you're playing, will think they're aligned
with you. Anything that looks for "Clan XXX" will not, not even
if you're playing "Clan XXX".
> In particular, can you buy them cheap or gain honour for
>bringing them in at full cost?
Yes and yes (unless you're playing a Shadowlands-faction
deck, which, as a completely separate issue, is except from that
rule to begin with).
___________________________________
Jeff Alexander ( Legend of the Five Rings FAQ site (O
Phoenix Clan Scribe ) http://www.zdi.net/jwa/l5r )
(___________________________________(O
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